Ultimate Raise Spectres Necromancer — 5M+ DPS Powerhouse on a Budget (PoE Blight 3.8)

Furty

289


About the Author

Furty has been playing Path of Exile since the release of the Onslaught League in 2013, and has a deep and diverse well of experience within the game. Equally comfortable playing on Hardcore, Softcore, and Solo-Self Found Leagues, recent ladder results include finishing at Rank 5 on the Legion SSF League playing Essence Drain Essence Drain and the Betrayal League at Rank 186 playing Elemental Hit Elemental Hit. You can follow him on Twitter, or check out his occasional streams on Twitch.

Author

Guide Format

This build guide is split over multiple pages, both to prevent it from getting too long, as well as to help you better find the information you are looking for. In addition to the current page, which presents general information about the build and also contains a Leveling and FAQ section, we have the following pages:

Introduction

Raise Spectre Raise Spectre is the king of summoner builds, sporting the best clear and the best damage. Better yet, it is not gated by any expensive Uniques or items — you can be tearing the Uber Elder to pieces or blitzing through red maps for less than a handful of Chaos Orb Chaos Orbs. The main uniques incorporated, such as Victario's Charity Victario's Charity or Bones of Ullr Bones of Ullr, can be obtained easily on any league (such as SSF) or bought extremely cheaply.

There are several types of Spectres that are commonly used, however, this build focuses on making use of the Slave Drivers, an underutilized Spectre that actually puts the rest of them to shame. Boss killing, mapping, deep delving (650+) — all fall before the spectral army we can employ, giving this build a rare flexibility that few others can boast of.

Build Assessment

Pros

+ Recent quality of life and numerical buffs in Patch 3.8.0 Blight League
+ Massive DPS from our cadre of Raise Spectre Raise Spectres (5M+ Shaper DPS)
+ Strong all around defenses (high maximum life, regeneration, 9 Jewel sockets, Phase Acrobatics, high Evasion)
+ Excellent league starter
+ Reaches millions of DPS even with less than an Exalted Orb Exalted Orb of investment
+ Delve to depths of 650+ without trouble
+ Flatten all types of content from the safety of the backline — let your army do the work
+ High movement speed
+ Excellent boss killer (sub 2-minute Uber Elder)

Cons

Summoner playstyle is polarizing — usually a “love it or hate it” type of build

Playstyle and Build Mechanics

Many players find Necromancer to be a polarizing Ascendancy — the Summoner archetype is a fairly unique one in feel and gameplay, and while certain players fall in love with it from the get-go, others find themselves alienated by the differences. Our Raise Spectre Raise Spectre Necromancer strikes a nice balance between a conventional build and a summoner — since Armageddon Brand Armageddon Brand is used as the main trigger for our Elemental Equilibrium, this build does have the combined feel of a spellcaster and a summoner.

This build makes use of the Slave Driver, an uncommon choice but the overall best option in Patch 3.8.0 Blight League. Unlike past iterations of the summoner, we do not need to make use of multiple types of spectres to maximize our potential in all areas of the game — boss killing, clear, and delve, the Slave Drivers are exceptional at it all.

Elemental Equilibrium allows us to deal massively increased damage with our minions for free and is easily applied using a self-cast spell. While this is not completely necessary for clearing standard mobs, it is an enormous increase for bossing and Legion rares, and helps us really power through targets that are a bit more beefy. Slave Drivers deal a heavy amount of Lightning damage and can Shock.

Obtain the Slave Driver Spectres

  1. Go to the Control Blocks in Act V.
  2. Cast Desecrate Desecrate to spawn corpses.
  3. Cast Raise Spectre Raise Spectre on a Slave Driver (holding “A” makes this process far easier).

With the new Raise Spectre Raise Spectre gem, the summoned spectre’s level is based on the level of your Raise Spectre Raise Spectre gem and not the level of the zone you are in. You should be certain that you are using the highest level Raise Spectre Raise Spectre gem you can afford.

  1. Cast Raise Spectre Raise Spectre on a Slave Driver (holding “A” makes this process far easier). Repeat this and the previous step until you have the maximum number of Spectres.

Passive Skill Tree

This is our recommended Level 100 Passive Skill Tree for our Raise Spectre Raise Spectre guide.

For more information, be sure to check out the Passive Skill Tree page.

Gems

We go over all of the gem links this build uses in the end-game on our Gem Link page.

Ascendancy, Bandits, and Pantheon

Our Ascendancy, Bandit, and Pantheon Power page goes into detail about all the choices you need to make in these regards.

Gear Summary / TL;DR

These items strike a balance between power and cost-effectiveness. If you want to explore more options for Gear (both budget and high-end), Flasks, or get more information on alternatives and specialty items, please ensure you read the Gear, Jewels, and Flasks section in its entirety.

Our recommendation:

Item Slot Item Name
Head Rare Bone Helmet Bone Helmet
Amulet Rare Amulet
Chest Rare Chest with +1 to Maximum Spectres
Gloves Rare Gloves
Boots Bones of Ullr Bones of Ullr or Rare Boots
Belt Rare Stygian Vise Stygian Vise
Rings Rare Unset Ring Unset Rings
Weapon Trigger a Socketed Spell When You Use a Skill Rare Wand
Shield Victario's Charity Victario's Charity

For much more detailed information on the best gear, jewels, and flasks to use, be sure to check out our Gear page.

Leveling

As a reminder, we have several guides to help you level up a character.

Start out with Freezing Pulse Freezing Pulse after killing Hillock. You can also buy Raise Zombie Raise Zombie from Nessa at this point. Ideally, you should socket both and use the Zombies as extra damage.

As early as possible, you will want to link:

  1. Raise Zombie Raise Zombie
  2. Minion Damage Support Minion Damage Support
  3. Melee Splash Support Melee Splash Support
  4. Summon Phantasm Support Summon Phantasm Support

When you reach level 12 you will also want to grab Storm Brand Storm Brand. Link it to Added Lightning Damage Support Added Lightning Damage Support and Onslaught Support Onslaught Support for extra damage and movement speed. Do not forget to acquire Flame Dash Flame Dash in Act I for movement speed.

Replace Summon Phantasm Support Summon Phantasm Support with Minion Speed Support Minion Speed Support in Act II.

If you want to switch to Raise Spectre Raise Spectre while leveling, you should use Wraithlord Wraithlord, otherwise you will lack damage and have a difficult time keeping them alive. The 4-Link in Wraithlord Wraithlord is:

  1. Raise Spectre Raise Spectre
  2. Minion Damage Support Minion Damage Support
  3. Controlled Destruction Support Controlled Destruction Support
  4. Spell Echo Support Spell Echo Support (from Level 38 onwards) / Minion Speed Support Minion Speed Support

Bones of Ullr Bones of Ullr and Sidhebreath Sidhebreath are also good for leveling if you have them, and Bones of Ullr Bones of Ullr can even be used throughout the entire end-game.

Improving the Animate Guardian Animate Guardian

Animate Guardian Animate Guardian is similar to having your own personal [budget] aura-bot, following you and your undead army around and keeping them buffed up and strong. You can equip the Animate Guardian Animate Guardian with powerful items and gear, however, if the guardian dies all its equipped items are lost on death.

One of the primary factors behind the survival of the Animate Guardian Animate Guardian is gem level. Your Animate Guardian Animate Guardian gem level should be at least Level 20 before you start to equip it with proper gear, especially if they are items you fear to lose. Additionally, there are a few ways of improving your Animate Guardian Animate Guardian‘s gem level:

Your Animate Guardian Animate Guardian wants as much Life Regeneration as possible to ensure it always stays healthy, even with constant use of Convocation Convocation. One of the main Uniques that is excellent for fulfilling this purpose is Gruthkul's Pelt Gruthkul's Pelt, which gives it a large injection of Life, Resistances, and a healthy 5% Life Regeneration per second.

Kingmaker Kingmaker is also an exceptional upgrade for damage and survivability, and ensures that a mobility skill like Shield Charge Shield Charge (which can procure Fortify Support Fortify Support) is not at all necessary. It grants you and all your minions Fortify Support Fortify Support in perpetuity, Culling Strike, +50% to Critical Strike Multiplier, and a nice Rarity bonus. Kingmaker Kingmaker is the best possible upgrade, but not the most essential out of the gate — you want to ensure that your Animate Guardian Animate Guardian will always survive before you start investing too heavily.

Upgrading the Rainbowstride Rainbowstride boots to a pair with the enchant Regenerate 2% of Life and Mana per second if you were Hit Recently is also ideal. Alternately, you can get a Rare pair of boots with Elemental Resistances, Life, and Life regeneration, although this is a larger investment and commitment and not necessary.

Life is one of the best stats for the Animate Guardian Animate Guardian, as we want as much Regeneration on it as possible, creating a nice synergy.

Animate Guardian Animate Guardian End-Game 4-Link

  1. Animate Guardian Animate Guardian
  2. Empower Support Empower Support (Level 3/4)
  3. Minion Life Support Minion Life Support
  4. Dread Banner Dread Banner

You will need to move your Summon Carrion Golem to another link in order to facilitate this. One option is to use a second Unset Ring Unset Ring, or you could drop Blind Support Blind Support from your Armageddon Brand Armageddon Brand 4-Link and slot it in there.

Here is our end-game recommendations for Animate Guardian Animate Guardian equipment, once it is properly Level 20 and you have Empower Support Empower Support Level 3/4.

Remember that having a Bone Helmet Bone Helmet equipped on your character that has +# to Level of Socketed Minion Gems is enormously beneficial to your Animate Guardian Animate Guardian‘s ability to survive (providing you have your link in the helmet, of course).

FAQ

Which Annointment is Best for My Amulet?

Our current preferences are:

My Spectres Are Dying

There are a few additional Minion Survivability nodes on the tree you can take if you find you need them, however, with the Ascendancy and Passive Recommendations we provided your minions should be extremely durable. Ensure you are casting Convocation Convocation often if this process is not already automated.

How Can I Run Two 50% Auras?

As we note on the Passive Skill Tree Page, you will need to acquire the 4% reduced Mana in the Leadership notable wheel. Alternatively, you can get Charisma near the Ranger starting wheel. The build uses both of these notables in the end, so it does not really matter which you get first.

Changelog
  •   

    Additional gearing recommendations included.

  •   

    Updated Gearing advice!

  •   

    Added Annointment recommendations to the FAQ!

  •   

    Updated Raise Spectre 6-Link to include Feeding Frenzy and Elemental Army.

  •   

    Significant updates for 3.8 Blight League: Gem Links, Passive Tree, Leveling Advice, Gearing, Ascendancy information, Mechanics, Spectre Acquisition, and the FAQ have all been updated.

  •   

    Updated gems section.

  •   

    Added "Improving the Animate Guardian" section, "Additional Information" section on Ascendancy, and updated the "Gems" section of the guide.

  •   

    Build added.

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  1. Posts
    3

    I use this exact build right now for my third SSF char in this league. I had some Bones of Ullr, Sidhebreath in my stash and a Tabula. I started with SRS and tried to switch to Spectres when I first saw Slave Drivers. But they keep dying… Even with Minion Life. My Desecrate and Raise Spectres gems should create level 47 Spectres, I remove Spell Echo from my 6L before raising Spectres but it doesn’t help. SSF so no Wraithlord for me. I always raise spectres in my Delve mine (level 75-80 don’t remember).
    Do you have an idea? Did I miss something in the tree to help with their life regen and survivability?

  2. Furty

    Moderator

    Posts
    727

    On 11/07/2019 at 7:53 AM, Asmo57 said

    I use this exact build right now for my third SSF char in this league. I had some Bones of Ullr, Sidhebreath in my stash and a Tabula. I started with SRS and tried to switch to Spectres when I first saw Slave Drivers. But they keep dying… Even with Minion Life. My Desecrate and Raise Spectres gems should create level 47 Spectres, I remove Spell Echo from my 6L before raising Spectres but it doesn’t help. SSF so no Wraithlord for me. I always raise spectres in my Delve mine (level 75-80 don’t remember).
    Do you have an idea? Did I miss something in the tree to help with their life regen and survivability?

    As mentioned in the Leveling section, you should only level with Raise Spectre Raise Spectre if you have Wraithlord Wraithlord (If you want to switch to Raise Spectre Raise Spectre while leveling, you should use Wraithlord Wraithlord, otherwise you will lack damage and have a difficult time keeping them alive).

  3. Posts
    3

    OK thanks for your reply.
    And in the end-game what will make them durable? Ascendencies? Desecrate and Raise Spectres gem levels?

  4. Furty

    Moderator

    Posts
    727

    On 11/07/2019 at 8:46 AM, Asmo57 said

    OK thanks for your reply.
    And in the end-game what will make them durable? Ascendencies? Desecrate and Raise Spectres gem levels?

    There’s a variety of factors — Soul Weaver Ascendancy, Convocation Convocation, certain Passive Skill tree investments, Raise Spectre Raise Spectre gem level, spectre monster level, etc.

  5. Posts
    3

    First of all i wanna thank the guys who figured out this build! It is amazing! Ive been playing Spectremancer like 2 seasons now,didnt reach more than 88 the last season using this build https://www.poe-vault.com/guides/raise-spectre-necromancer-build-guide ..I did start a little late in current season so i thought,well it is oki to reach 88 with so little time .So i started out this season, building the almost exact build,i did then reach 88 once more,and god i was struggling,dying all the time,getting 1 shotted and rekt trying to get past map 10,in fact i was on lvl 88 for weeks ,gaining and loosing xp all the time…Iam not saying the https://www.poe-vault.com/guides/raise-spectre-necromancer-build-guide build isnt good,its just not for me,that i can see now,who the hell want all thoose zombies and skeletons?..so did reset alot og points in my passive tree.I dont have all the correct items for the new build yet..but its stil SO MUCH stronger and the defense is great..Ive being running several 10 maps now and do not loosing xp atall,gaining my way to 89..Holy sheep thoose Slave drivers are so powerfull..My Animate Guardian is dying sometimes,but i quess its because the gem is a little to low atm…10/10 best build out there..no doubt”“!Thanx guys! great job! Maybe with the new patch today..who knows..some of thoose new spectres could be even stronger?

    Best regards! Netfix https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/%C3%86rek%C3%A6r

    Edited by Netfix on July 12th, 2019

  6. Furty

    Moderator

    Posts
    727

    On 12/07/2019 at 9:27 AM, Netfix said

    First of all i wanna thank the guys who figured out this build! It is amazing! Ive been playing Spectremancer like 2 seasons now,didnt reach more than 88 the last season using this build https://www.poe-vault.com/guides/raise-spectre-necromancer-build-guide ..I did start a little late in current season so i thought,well it is oki to reach 88 with so little time .So i started out this season, building the almost exact build,i did then reach 88 once more,and god i was struggling,dying all the time,getting 1 shotted and rekt trying to get past map 10,in fact i was on lvl 88 for weeks ,gaining and loosing xp all the time…Iam not saying the https://www.poe-vault.com/guides/raise-spectre-necromancer-build-guide build isnt good,its just not for me,that i can see now,who the hell want all thoose zombies and skeletons?..so did reset alot og points in my passive tree.I dont have all the correct items for the new build yet..but its stil SO MUCH stronger and the defense is great..Ive being running several 10 maps now and do not loosing xp atall,gaining my way to 89..Holy sheep thoose Slave drivers are so powerfull..My Animate Guardian is dying sometimes,but i quess its because the gem is a little to low atm…10/10 best build out there..no doubt”“!Thanx guys! great job! Maybe with the new patch today..who knows..some of thoose new spectres could be even stronger?

    Best regards! Netfix https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/%C3%86rek%C3%A6r

    Thanks for the positive feedback, I’m glad this build is working out for you and I’m sorry that you weren’t able to get the most out of your previous effort. I’ll be adding a more detailed section on Animate Guardian Animate Guardian soon to help players keep it alive and equip it with even more powerful gear.

  7. Posts
    1

    Hi guys, For some reason the Passive skill tree is not available for me to look at. Any insight in how to do this as i NEED this build in my life for my First character haha! Thanks in Advance.

  8. Posts
    3

    ‘Thx man! how kind of you to respect me of me journey,As i told earlier i didnt have all the correct items for the build..Aim having a bit trouble understanding all the correct words from the build,and i did use alot of currency trying to make my last build function..iam struggling with all ress atm..dying has arrived..but still ive gained ½ lvl on 1 night/day..was 3 bubs from 89 getting very faisty..thought i was immortal..haha..i wasnt..but still i rekt legion forces more than ever..if i manage to keep up blade vortex,i cannot die..but then again..i cant..i hope when i have the currency to buy a decent 1 h mace with 90+ miniondamage,and ressist..I think iam not suppose to click the dang thing all the time to keep it up..something about “ Trigger a Socketed Spell When You Use a Skill“i dont quiet understand..but i quess it will follow later on when i have the correct items..Or is it suppose to be like that?..i gotta keep it up by clicking the hell outta it….would be aweaome if the spell just staying at +10 all the time,and just was like and damage aura all the time…i hope you understand my odd kinda spelling and questioning…pardon my french kinda spelling and odd kinda langueage…Iam from Denmark…North Europe…Anyways thanx in advance!

    Urs sincerely Netfix..iam not expeckting you to answer me..this is just mu thoughts outthere..great respect from here…no trollin whatsoever§!

  9. Furty

    Moderator

    Posts
    727

    On 12/07/2019 at 6:13 PM, Deathstowel said

    Hi guys, For some reason the Passive skill tree is not available for me to look at. Any insight in how to do this as i NEED this build in my life for my First character haha! Thanks in Advance.

    http://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAABAMDAd-wksGOvhEtLJy86mpDCPTsimvbTLPQH-_rBAeD21XGOlismPfXzLxNuYVgqsR8g-vumuBFnVNSHNyPGriTKPqCx_noQYe3Pv4K2L01kv6PTeOmVzrh8kW18m6qSsiKr5ARe8ODzDwtg1_GrsT2r6cczitQDc3-VHKprKpZ8xo4kFUnL3IPZp6g5mdxSp-Ub2ZU0_tqrAZJV8kNfOq6tAxGceGIHaqwd4MJb57xs0tXwOPKSl-wm7WExcM6IuoyAbIZz3ro1gW1jb_UIzBx3ahLeDpCmK3-STLRRUfAZgSzogAZivsJ9toaj_AfaHTaYhhWqH1akRUnjLHsg9OP2V7-gWa6LOI=

    Here is a link to an official site tree.

  10. Furty

    Moderator

    Posts
    727

    On 12/07/2019 at 9:07 PM, Netfix said

    ‘Thx man! how kind of you to respect me of me journey,As i told earlier i didnt have all the correct items for the build..Aim having a bit trouble understanding all the correct words from the build,and i did use alot of currency trying to make my last build function..iam struggling with all ress atm..dying has arrived..but still ive gained ½ lvl on 1 night/day..was 3 bubs from 89 getting very faisty..thought i was immortal..haha..i wasnt..but still i rekt legion forces more than ever..if i manage to keep up blade vortex,i cannot die..but then again..i cant..i hope when i have the currency to buy a decent 1 h mace with 90+ miniondamage,and ressist..I think iam not suppose to click the dang thing all the time to keep it up..something about “ Trigger a Socketed Spell When You Use a Skill“i dont quiet understand..but i quess it will follow later on when i have the correct items..Or is it suppose to be like that?..i gotta keep it up by clicking the hell outta it….would be aweaome if the spell just staying at +10 all the time,and just was like and damage aura all the time…i hope you understand my odd kinda spelling and questioning…pardon my french kinda spelling and odd kinda langueage…Iam from Denmark…North Europe…Anyways thanx in advance!

    Urs sincerely Netfix..iam not expeckting you to answer me..this is just mu thoughts outthere..great respect from here…no trollin whatsoever§!

    If you have the Trigger a Socketed Spell when You Use a Skill mod on your weapon then Blade Vortex Blade Vortex will activate automatically, so definitely something to look forward to!

  11. Posts
    2

    This appears extremely similar to Kayella’s build posted 5 days prior to this. Slave Drivers not being in PoB and the discovery of Slave Drivers being viable contenders in the Spectre arsenal are all very recent/coincidental and I would appreciate a follow up to this. Original Link/Guide — http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2181275 —————— If this is the inspiration for such a build, at least some type of homage is due. Clarification would be much appreciated.

    Edited by Hammer2DaFace on July 13th, 2019

  12. Furty

    Moderator

    Posts
    727

    On 13/07/2019 at 4:23 AM, Hammer2DaFace said

    This appears extremely similar to Kayella’s build posted 5 days prior to this. Slave Drivers not being in PoB and the discovery of Slave Drivers being viable contenders in the Spectre arsenal are all very recent/coincidental and I would appreciate a follow up to this. Original Link/Guide — http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2181275 —————— If this is the inspiration for such a build, at least some type of homage is due. Clarification would be much appreciated.

    Hey there,

    Slave Drivers being a recent discovery as a contender is the main reason this guide was produced, as we already have a great Spectres guide to the more traditional “Solar Guard” route on-site. I’m not sure if this “Kayella” character was the very first person to discover Slave Drivers, since I haven’t had the pleasure of encountering their work or chatting with them before, but I’ve been hearing a bit of buzz about the use of Slave Drivers both in-game and in discord for a few weeks now. After reading through the guide you linked, it is clear to me the content isn’t all that similar aside from stuff like Gearing and Passive Allocation, which is pretty archetypal across many Spectre/Summoner builds to begin with. Whenever something new is discovered that causes a shift in the status quo of a certain archetype or meta, it is inevitable there will be multiple or many new information streams that cover and tackle it from different angles — for example, how many Cyclone Cyclone guides/builds are out there with similar recommendations but entirely different guide matter?

    Having written many guides for many games, I take my work very seriously and I know exactly what it feels like to have your work mirrored or reproduced without fair citation. As such, I have no problem giving people the appropriate nod and link or asking their permission directly, as is their right. This isn’t the case here, although my hat is off to this particular creator for some of the depth they’ve gone into in their guide (what a detailed leveling section!). Please feel free to reach out to me or respond here if any other clarification is needed!

  13. Posts
    1

    On 13/07/2019 at 1:44 PM, Furty said

    I’m not sure if this “Kayella” character was the very first person to discover Slave Drivers,

    Hello,

    I am Kayella. I was informed by several players that this build guide is similar to mine.

    Firstly, I would like to address this comment. On the 5th of July, I posted the world first sub 2min Uber Elder kill using Slave Drivers. My friend passed on the link to Uberelite, who then streamed it on his stream. You can check the video and dates here:

    https://www.youtube.com/kaygaming

    I am also the one who posted the PSA on reddit:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/cav6pe/psa_for_summoners_slave_drivers_are_pretty_good/

    The current buzz around Slave Drivers is most likely because of my video/reddit post.

    On 13/07/2019 at 1:44 PM, Furty said

    it is inevitable there will be multiple or many new information streams that cover and tackle it from different angles

    it is clear to me the content isn’t all that similar aside from stuff like Gearing and Passive Allocation, which is pretty archetypal across many Spectre/Summoner builds to begin with

    Secondly, you say you tackle it ‘from a different angle’. However, I have read through your guide, and all your information is the same as mine. Your gem suggestions and their links are the same as mine. This is not archetypal. No other spectre summoner build uses the same gem and gem link configuration as my build does.

    Your passive tree is exactly the same as mine. Again, this is not archetypal. I popularised the use of phase acrobatics in Synthesis league. No other spectre summoner build focuses on it. Especially with pathing to Herbalism which was theorycrafted in Synethsis league by a friend of mine.

    You gear suggestions, crafting guide and mechanics are exactly the same as mine or are a paraphrase of my words. Yet more non-archetypal build features. The use of a multi-mod trigger wand to proc Elemental Equilibrium is something I theorycrafted with others through my build guide. This is not featured in other summoner builds.

    Overall, much of the descriptions that you give, especially in the crafting and explaining of mechanics, are clear paraphrases of my words. There is too much similarity between this guide and my guide for it to be coincidental.

    Edited by Kayella on July 14th, 2019

  14. Vlad

    Moderator

    Posts
    65

    On 14/07/2019 at 1:47 PM, Kayella said

    On 13/07/2019 at 1:44 PM, Furty said

    I’m not sure if this “Kayella” character was the very first person to discover Slave Drivers,

    Hello,

    I am Kayella. I was informed by several players that this build guide is similar to mine.

    Firstly, I would like to address this comment. On the 5th of July, I posted the world first sub 2min Uber Elder kill using Slave Drivers. My friend passed on the link to Uberelite, who then streamed it on his stream. You can check the video and dates here:

    https://www.youtube.com/kaygaming

    I am also the one who posted the PSA on reddit:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/cav6pe/psa_for_summoners_slave_drivers_are_pretty_good/

    The current buzz around Slave Drivers is most likely because of my video/reddit post.

    On 13/07/2019 at 1:44 PM, Furty said

    it is inevitable there will be multiple or many new information streams that cover and tackle it from different angles

    it is clear to me the content isn’t all that similar aside from stuff like Gearing and Passive Allocation, which is pretty archetypal across many Spectre/Summoner builds to begin with

    Secondly, you say you tackle it ‘from a different angle’. However, I have read through your guide, and all your information is the same as mine. Your gem suggestions and their links are the same as mine. This is not archetypal. No other spectre summoner build uses the same gem and gem link configuration as my build does.

    Your passive tree is exactly the same as mine. Again, this is not archetypal. I popularised the use of phase acrobatics in Synthesis league. No other spectre summoner build focuses on it. Especially with pathing to Herbalism which was theorycrafted in Synethsis league by a friend of mine.

    You gear suggestions, crafting guide and mechanics are exactly the same as mine or are a paraphrase of my words. Yet more non-archetypal build features. The use of a multi-mod trigger wand to proc Elemental Equilibrium is something I theorycrafted with others through my build guide. This is not featured in other summoner builds.

    Overall, much of the descriptions that you give, especially in the crafting and explaining of mechanics, are clear paraphrases of my words. There is too much similarity between this guide and my guide for it to be coincidental.

    Hello.

    I am Vlad, one of the owners of PoE Vault, and I’m responsible for proofreading and curating most of the content we have here. As a short preface, I will say that I play PoE myself, but having started quite recently, I am far from being as versed in matters relating to it as our writers, or yourself. As such, while I respond to your post, please bear that in mind in case I misspeak. We have done quite a bit of research into this matter, though, so I am not only speaking for myself here but also reproducing the opinions of more experienced players.

    When this matter was first brought to our attention yesterday, we immediately took it very seriously. We pride ourselves on creating quality original content, and the thought that one of our writers would have plagiarized someone else’s work (without any mention or credit, to top it off) was alarming. As my response will show, we do not believe that any sort of plagiarizing took place, but it is important that you understand the fact that we did look at it as a real possibility, and investigated things as such.

    With that out of the way, let’s look at the allegations.

    Claim: You claim that the “current buzz” around Slave Drivers is probably because of your videos and reddit post.

    Response: While that may well be true, Furty had had the idea of potentially using Slave Drivers in a Raise Spectre Necromancer guide before your post and even before the Taiwanese video was posted on June 29th. I submit the following screenshot of a Discord chat from June 20th, when Furty’s friend mentions the idea to him.

    I will immediately grant that the screenshot is hardly proof of Furty having begun work on the guide, or of even having committed at the time to write it, but it does show that he was aware of the combination being possible shortly before he wrote the guide, and before you posted anything about it anywhere (that we know of).

    As a supplemental note, Furty made use of this post as part of his minion research, and as you can see that talks about Slave Drivers long before any of this recent interest in them surfaced.

    Taking the Slave Driver idea further, as you clearly point out in your reddit post, you did not come up with the concept yourself, but instead it was the Taiwanese summoners who appear to have made it work first (interestingly, you don’t seem to mention this fact anywhere in your guide on the official forums).

    Claim: You claim that “all your information is the same as mine”. You cite skill trees, gems, and “all information”.

    Response: This is simply not true.

    The passive skill trees are not the same. Aside from the fact that you provide a level 95 tree and we provide a level 100 one (which obviously leads to some differences), there are the notable facts that you take the entire Revenge of Hunted wheel, whereas we do not, you do not take the Leadership notable (nor do you mention anywhere in your guide that you might take it with the remaining skill points), you path differently to Gravepact, and you take one fewer Jewel socket.

    The gem links are indeed very similar, but then again, since the builds are pretty much the same, this is not very surprising to me (I will get back to the similarities between the builds towards the end of my reply). There is one difference in Lightning Penetration Support being used in the main link, but that is indeed minor.

    You also claim that “all information” is the same but there are other differences. For example, your Pantheon section provides one major god and one minor god as options, whereas we provide an alternative for each. You recommend Blood of the Karui Blood of the Karui in your flask section, whereas we do not and recommend a Basalt Flask Basalt Flask instead.

    Claim: You claim that you popularised the use of Phase Acrobatics in Synthesis and “no other spectre summoner build focuses on it”.

    Response: First of all, this Raise Spectre Necromancer build uses Phases Acrobatics. It was posted at the end of January 2019, so well before Synthesis came out. That makes your statement patently false.

    Even if it weren’t for that build’s existence, however, Phase Acrobatics is a very popular node. Furty made use of it in one of the first builds he wrote on our site, the Storm Brand Elementalist (it has since been removed from that build). While that is indeed not “a summoner” and is a different ascendancy, let us not get too carried away here with the idea of revolutionary concepts. It is a strong passive that exists on the skill tree, and pathing to it is not something you can claim ownership over, in my opinion.

    You also mention pathing to Herbalism here, but I don’t see what this has to do with anything since neither your build nor ours go anywhere near that node.

    Claim: You claim to have “theorycrafted” the use of a multi-mod trigger wand to proc Elemental Equilibrium.

    Response: That trigger effect has existed in the game since patch 3.1 on The Poet's Pen The Poet's Pen. I do not see what is so revolutionary in replicating a powerful Unique effect in a crafted Rare item.

    Claim: You claim that the “gear suggestions, crafting guide and mechanics” and “much of the descriptions” are paraphrases of your own words.

    Response: This is the part I have the most trouble with. I don’t mean to be rude, but your guide is quite austere at the best of times. There are literal pages’ worth of content in our guide that simply does not exist in yours (gem discussions, passive skill tree discussion, crafting explanations and gear discussions).

    While I concede similarities between the two builds (again, explained more below) in terms of their very core, I find their forms to be very different indeed. To claim that there is any paraphrasing going on is, frankly, outrageous. Even “extrapolation” would be improperly used here.

    Both builds describe the same thing. So, because the two builds are basically the same, they naturally have overlap. A lot of overlap. A lot of things are shared. The gear, for example, is archetypal. Using Bones of Ullr Bones of Ullr, +1 spectre boots, or Vis Mortis Vis Mortis is just bog standard summoner stuff.

    But there are differences in the actual recommendations, and there are certainly huge differences in terms of wording, depth of explanation, alternatives provided, and more.

    Conclusion

    All of the above is sufficient evidence for us to conclude that there is no undue copying of content in this case. Furty has been a respected (if sometimes controversial precisely for the opposite of plagiarism, namely going against accepted theorycrafting and proposing his own ideas) guide-writer in World of Warcraft for many years. We have worked with him for a long time, and we are very familiar with his writing style, and this guide does not in any way read or sound differently from his usual work.

    I do want to say that I can certainly see how the timing of the publication of this guide coinciding with you updating your guide on the official forums, together with the very similar content of the guides, could have led you to believe that something was wrong. A reasonable suspicion, but one which happens to be unfounded this time.

    Finally, I would like to touch upon the tone of your post, which seems to me to imply you feel you have some sort of “copyright” on various things (Phase Acrobatics for summoners, Slave Drivers, multi mod wands) etc. Guide-writing in a lot of games (and Path of Exile is very much one of them) is a gradual, iterative process where one creator builds upon the work of dozens of others who research and bring various elements to the forefront.

    Crediting others for discovering things is certainly practiced when the discovery is groundbreaking, the combination is revolutionary, and so on (and we have credited thusly on many occasions in the past), but it is not a blanket practice that should just be applied every time you write a guide on a topic someone else covered somewhere before.

    Edited by Vlad on July 14th, 2019

  15. Posts
    2

    That is a well-worded rebuttal to the aforementioned issues, but I’m having trouble seeing the how that discord post truly helps validate the credibility here.

    To clarify: Someone that doesn’t “like to play necro that much” decided to grab Slave Drivers , a spectre not mathematically testable in Path of Building outside of an obscure workaround, and build an in-depth guide in a short period of time — coincidentally publishing days after purist Necro players with established followings post their builds and the results appear alarmingly similar?

    Necromancer Spectre Summoner passive trees, I admit, don’t have as insane a variance level in terms of their passive trees as other builds, but the timing/wording of all of this honestly begs the question: Is this truly “original content?”

    Furty also mentioned variations of “Cyclone” builds as an example of different ways to “tackle” builds. Raise Spectre is on a wholly different level in terms of making a build. The game offers countless possibilities and interactions with mob types. Most with differing skills gems, animations, cast speeds, etc… Slave Drivers are one in a huge lineup of options to interact with Raise Spectre. It takes time, in-game currency, and much effort to optimize each individual archetype within Raise Spectre. Cyclone is Cyclone. The gem is what the skill offers and what you’re purely working with in the passive tree and in your character build/items/dynamics. —

    To comment on another point — I understand that paying “homage” in the sense I appeared to asked previously and giving nods to other players for varying ideas/builds/content is not commonplace in the vast ocean of content that is PoE (or most all games for that matter). There aren’t patents or copyrights galore to pull from for legal action or game ToS. However, many of these big content creators/streamers do give at least some kind of visibility/acknowledgement/friendly nudge when something seems to budge commonplace standards (eh ehm Solar Guards…) and is worth checking out.

    My original comment above was in response to this asking for clarification. Kayella’s guide appeared (and still does) eerily similar to this one. However, Kayella made a point to comment on their found origins (“nice Find! etc..)

    From what I’ve been observing:

    Kayella commented on that original Taiwanese video.
    The player commented back — both were discussing optimal gems.
    Uberelite, just recognized by GGG, then shared Kayella’s video on stream.
    Uberelite does a Pledge of Hands rendition and is currently playing it.

    There wasn’t a “credits to x and x and x” on a guide, or an asterisk on Uberelite’s twitch page for credit to Kayella. There wasn’t an asterisk on Kayella’s guide to the Taiwanese player. There was a sharing of information, publicly. On video, or on the comments page on the guide’s thread. A “nudge or friendly bump.”

    This guide appeared on my radar, out of the blue, with intense similarities, and no grounds from which I saw or have seen that transition. I simply asked for clarification on the matter, and then I’m told it is wholly original. Fair enough. I can’t prove coincidences, nor is it my job to, but as a fan of the game and the ascendancy in general, this brought up a red flag to me and I asked a question to see the origins.

    I do appreciate the constructive and professional rebuttals. The one thing I am genuinely happy for is the exposure of all of this to players wanting to try the ascendancy— new or veteran. I am guilty of commenting on a guide without intentions to start a discussion improving someone’s game experience with spectres. However, I did feel the need to try and delve (pun intended) into the core of the roots of the information that was lacking any remote sense of vague affirmation. Guides/Builds are an ever-evolving, adaptive process in which many players take part in – I agree. This one struck home for me as it was in the neck-of-the-woods I frequent. And it seemed out of place.

    Edited by Hammer2DaFace on July 15th, 2019

  16. Posts
    1

    Hi guys,
    I hope you can help

    all my minions die from 1 hit of most yellow monsters, I do have Wraithlord and Bones of Ullr I am keeping my zobies together with spectres and most yellow bosses just 1 shot the whole lot
    can any1 look at my char and see what the heck I am doing wrong? thx guys!!
    https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/xtyr/characters

    char in Legion name: SashaTheSpectreQueen

    pls help!

  17. Furty

    Moderator

    Posts
    727

    On 15/07/2019 at 9:23 AM, XtyrTheRed said

    Hi guys,
    I hope you can help

    all my minions die from 1 hit of most yellow monsters, I do have Wraithlord and Bones of Ullr I am keeping my zobies together with spectres and most yellow bosses just 1 shot the whole lot
    can any1 look at my char and see what the heck I am doing wrong? thx guys!!
    https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/xtyr/characters

    char in Legion name: SashaTheSpectreQueen

    pls help!

    Unfortunately they’re just pretty squishy during the leveling process. Picking up a Convocation Convocation gem makes it a little smoother but your Spectres especially will still be fairly vulnerable until the Soul Weaver and Commander of Darkness keystones on your Necromancer Ascendancy. You can also grab the Sacrifice notable for now (and Spiritual Command while you’re there) and spec out of them once you’re comfortably into maps.

  18. Posts
    2

    I’m not really clear on how the ‘Trigger a Socketed Spell when you Use a Skill’ thing works. In your gear section you mention that it’s useful because ‘stopping to cast Armageddon Band isn’t worth it’, but in order for these skills to cast, you need to self-cast something. So what is being cast to trigger these if not Armageddon Band?

    Additionally, whenever I trigger these skills, not all 3 are cast. They seem to randomly cast. What am I not understanding or doing properly here?

  19. Posts
    2

    On 15/07/2019 at 5:38 AM, Hammer2DaFace said

    Necromancer Spectre Summoner passive trees, I admit, don’t have as insane a variance level in terms of their passive trees as other builds, but the timing/wording of all of this honestly begs the question: Is this truly “original content?”

    Seems about as original as Kayella’s.

  20. Posts
    2

    On 15/07/2019 at 3:56 PM, ModularAlbatross said

    I’m not really clear on how the ‘Trigger a Socketed Spell when you Use a Skill’ thing works. In your gear section you mention that it’s useful because ‘stopping to cast Armageddon Band isn’t worth it’, but in order for these skills to cast, you need to self-cast something. So what is being cast to trigger these if not Armageddon Band?

    Additionally, whenever I trigger these skills, not all 3 are cast. They seem to randomly cast. What am I not understanding or doing properly here?

    You should be shield charging or flame dashing or leap slamming all over the place (charge or leap generally preferable as they can link to fortify). Convocation should also trigger the gems in the wand, and is pretty important.

    Edited by FalconPimpslap on July 15th, 2019

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